Great article. I’m sorry for adding to the constructive criticism but the correct phrase is “cutting off your nose to spite your face”, implying hurting oneself in the process of striking out at someone else.
Laughing at the comment “cut off his nose despite his face, or in spite of his face”. I’ve always thought it was TO SPITE his face. Wouldn’t that make sense – someone who is doing something of a ridiculous nature just for revenge, even if it means hurting oneself in the process? Anyway – since this issue was on Constructive Criticism, I thought I’d send along what made me chuckle today. Thanks for the laugh this morning.
Your comments were right on target today except for one small item. I agree that “despite your face” is wrong, but so if “in spite of your face.” The old adage on cutting off your nose should end with “to spite your face.” If you think about the intended meaning, you will see why that would be correct verbiage and the only way the adage makes sense with its message.
I do enjoy your column, even though at times, I question some of your answers to reader’s questions. Although your answers always make good sense, there are occasions when the action you advise is risky or even legally questionable in today’s litigious world. Of course, the problem would not exist if people weren’t being sissies to begin with and dealt with issues when they were small instead of letting them fester out of control. Why? Because work is not for sissies!
Your comments were right on target today except for one small item. I agree that “despite your face” is wrong, but so is “in spite of your face.” The old adage on cutting off your nose should end with “to spite your face.” If you think about the intended meaning, you will see why that would be correct verbiage and the only way the adage makes sense with its message.
I do enjoy your column, even though at times, I question some of your answers to reader’s questions. Although your answers always make good sense, there are occasions when the action you advise is risky or even legally questionable in today’s litigious world. Of course, the problem would not exist if people weren’t being sissies to begin with and dealt with issues when they were small instead of letting them fester out of control. Why? Because work is not for sissies!
Glenn, because I respect and admire you so much, I’m going to pick a nit with you. The phrase you used “inspite of his face” and then stood corrected with “despite his face” is wrong on both counts. The phrase (and I’m really aging myself here) is “to spite his face”. If you really think about the irony of similies and metaphors, this phrase is the only one that makes sense. Right up there with “forest for the trees”, etc. Either way, I think we all get what you’re trying to say so it really doesn’t matter!
Hate to correct the correctors, but the correct expression is “cut off your nose to spite your face,” where spite means hurt. So the saying means that one will take an action that hurts oneself solely in order to hurt another. I don’t like being pedantic but the whole meaning of the expression changes when you say “despite” or “in spite of.” So when you thought you heard Dr. Laura say “despite your face,” she was probably correctly saying “to spite your face,” since the difference is very subtle to the ear, although obvious when written.
It’s actually “TO spite your face.” The expression refers to harming yourself in the process of trying to get what you want, or a kind of bitterness or mean-spiritedness. Cut off your nose to spite your face – not “in spite of” – what does that mean? Nothing.
The quote you referred to is actually “cut off your nose to spite your face,” not in spite of. Maybe Dr Laura got it right and you only heard it as “despite” instead of “to spite.” An awful lot of words and phrases get lost in the translation when we hear words differently than they were spoken. Or the words might have really been spoken incorrectly. Enunciation is a very big part of it. People then have learned the words incorrectly and then continued to use them unknowingly. A lot of children do this because of their limited word knowledge. You could probably think of many examples. My 9-year-old daughter comes up with some often. It helps her because we get to explain the correct way and what the word or phrase means.
Check it out on the internet to confirm this. I typed in “cut off your nose to spite you face” and got a page of references including Wikipedia. It really makes more sense the correct way.
Again, love your newsletters, your seminar, and the DVD package we bought from you.
Actually, you are all wrong about in spite of, or despite–the expression is “cut off your nose TO SPITE your face. Just thought you might want to know.
It’s amazing how people botch all sorts of expressions in daily life. I listen to National Public Radio a lot, and the reporters work to get interviews with local politicians, small business owners, and regular Joes off the street. Invariably, every one, reporters and citizens alike, tries to “drop” an expression into the discussion, and nine times out of ten it comes out wrong. When you drive down the road and you see that wierd guy yelling at his radio, that’s me correcting somebody.
What I hate the most when listening to conversations at work or on the radio, however, is the lack of the use of the article “an” and the mispronunciation of the word “the” before a word beginning with a vowel. Our President Obama doesn’t use an, but instead says “aye”, like many people, as if that error will make up for the real one. Most people, instead of using the correct pronunciation “thee” simply cut off most of the e, thinking that error will make the sound more palatable. Wrong, at least for me. Aren’t these facts taught in school any more? I guess not in California.
Glen,
Enjoy your articles very much – they’re ‘right on the button’. However, about the ‘cutting off your nose’ quote which one of your readers corrected you on. I always was under the impression that it was as follows:
‘To cut off your nose, to spite your face”!
Best Regards,
Terry.
Hi Glenn,
The saying should be “to spite your face”. I have attached an excerpt found “googling” the phrase:
Cut off your nose to spite your face
Meaning
Disadvantage yourself in order to do harm to an adversary.
Origin
The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations lists this proverb as “mid 16th century – mid 14th century in French”. I wouldn’t doubt them but the earliest citation I can find in print is much later. Grose’s 1796 edition of the ‘Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue’ explains it thus:
“He cut off his nose to be revenged of his face. Said of one who, to be revenged on his neighbour, has materially injured himself.”
Your newsletter is a great benefit. I wish I and or my company could afford more of your seminars.
The expression is actually :”to cut off one’s nose to spite one’s face”…. In other words it is silly to perform an action to hurt/spite someone, if it is going to end up hurting you more in the end.
Corporate Services Branch | Direction des services généraux
Patented Medicine Prices Review Board | Conseil d’examen du prix des médicaments brevetés
Box L40, 333 Laurier Avenue West, Suite 1400 | Boîte L40, 333, rue Laurier ouest, Bureau 1400
Ottawa, ON, K1P 1C1
don’t usually write to critique someone’s writing – we all have our moments. But, here goes …
I don’t think it is to cut off your nose “in spite of your face” – I believe the actual saying is “cut off your nose to spite your face”. As in, “It makes no sense to cut off your nose to spite your face.” This is probably how people get to “despite your face”.
Have a great day!
Dorothy E Ramsey, CPA CBM
Chief Financial Officer
Great Lakes Quick Lube Limited Partnership
Glenn –
I LOVE your newsletter! (And — by the way, to you and the reader: the saying is: “to cut off one’s nose to spite his face.”
(not despite…..not in spite of…..)
Have a wonderful day!! You do so much to make all of us better managers!!
Joyce
Joyce Thomas
Gastroenterology Associates
of Iowa City, PC
My mother always used the expression “Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.” The wording “in spite of” your face could give a similar meaning but the expression is, I believe to spite. Check Wikipedia for a great story about how the expression originated.
Actually it should be, “TO spite your face” that’s why people always get it mixed up with “despite” (despite sounds just like to spite)
Perhaps you’d like to give your “astute” subscriber some constructive criticism!
“Despite” tiny errors like this, your writing is absolutely engrossing, and its content so valuable. Strive for perfection, but don’t let it become the focus.
As for criticism, I always liked the approach of stating the problem, followed by pointing out a strength, followed by assigning a goal, then following up to reassess. Isn’t this the “One Minute Manager” style? Do you buy into that approach?
My compliments to you and your down-to-earth style, and your refusal to tip-toe around the politically correct land mines.
I believe the phrase listed below is some what regional in its nature as to how it is said. Western up state N.Y., where I was raised, the phrase went, “You’d cut off your nose to (or – just to) spite your face”.
“Run that up the flag pole and see if any one is astute.”
Dude, It’s “Bite off your nose to spite your face” — it’s in the infinitive form & has the deeper meaning of…. oh well. Thanks for taking the time to attempt enlightening us — I am paid to perform HR & payroll for a moving company in three states & your weekly is invaluable to me. Your sayings are consistantly posted clearly in my cube & are not the most popular. Also thank you for most times having a decent perspective – altho you could use a bit of constructive critisism yourself in terms of presenting ideas specific to the female gender. Regards
Posted by Ed Quint on May 12, 2009 at 8:12 am
Great article. I’m sorry for adding to the constructive criticism but the correct phrase is “cutting off your nose to spite your face”, implying hurting oneself in the process of striking out at someone else.
Posted by Paul McGloin on May 12, 2009 at 8:14 am
I thought it was “cut off your nose to spite your face”?
Posted by Teresa Wilmoth on May 12, 2009 at 8:18 am
Laughing at the comment “cut off his nose despite his face, or in spite of his face”. I’ve always thought it was TO SPITE his face. Wouldn’t that make sense – someone who is doing something of a ridiculous nature just for revenge, even if it means hurting oneself in the process? Anyway – since this issue was on Constructive Criticism, I thought I’d send along what made me chuckle today. Thanks for the laugh this morning.
Posted by SaDonna on May 12, 2009 at 8:20 am
Actually, I thought the saying was “to cut off your nose to spite your face.”
Posted by Kathy Thomas on May 12, 2009 at 8:36 am
The proper terminology for the 7/22/08 statement should have been, He cut off his nose “to spite” his face. Whole different context isn’t it?
Love you weekly wisdom!
Posted by Ted Aukerman on May 12, 2009 at 9:02 am
Glen
I always heard “To spite your face”
Posted by Gail Reese, SPHR on May 12, 2009 at 9:02 am
Your comments were right on target today except for one small item. I agree that “despite your face” is wrong, but so if “in spite of your face.” The old adage on cutting off your nose should end with “to spite your face.” If you think about the intended meaning, you will see why that would be correct verbiage and the only way the adage makes sense with its message.
I do enjoy your column, even though at times, I question some of your answers to reader’s questions. Although your answers always make good sense, there are occasions when the action you advise is risky or even legally questionable in today’s litigious world. Of course, the problem would not exist if people weren’t being sissies to begin with and dealt with issues when they were small instead of letting them fester out of control. Why? Because work is not for sissies!
Keep up the good work (and writing!).
Posted by Gail Reese, SPHR on May 12, 2009 at 9:04 am
Your comments were right on target today except for one small item. I agree that “despite your face” is wrong, but so is “in spite of your face.” The old adage on cutting off your nose should end with “to spite your face.” If you think about the intended meaning, you will see why that would be correct verbiage and the only way the adage makes sense with its message.
I do enjoy your column, even though at times, I question some of your answers to reader’s questions. Although your answers always make good sense, there are occasions when the action you advise is risky or even legally questionable in today’s litigious world. Of course, the problem would not exist if people weren’t being sissies to begin with and dealt with issues when they were small instead of letting them fester out of control. Why? Because work is not for sissies!
Keep up the good work (and writing!).
Posted by Cheryl Bartz on May 12, 2009 at 9:10 am
Glenn, because I respect and admire you so much, I’m going to pick a nit with you. The phrase you used “inspite of his face” and then stood corrected with “despite his face” is wrong on both counts. The phrase (and I’m really aging myself here) is “to spite his face”. If you really think about the irony of similies and metaphors, this phrase is the only one that makes sense. Right up there with “forest for the trees”, etc. Either way, I think we all get what you’re trying to say so it really doesn’t matter!
Posted by Candace D. on May 12, 2009 at 9:50 am
………. and I’ve always heard “to spite your face”. (But then, I’m from Indiana and sometimes we make up our own sayings.)
Posted by Rob Sutphen on May 12, 2009 at 10:15 am
Hate to correct the correctors, but the correct expression is “cut off your nose to spite your face,” where spite means hurt. So the saying means that one will take an action that hurts oneself solely in order to hurt another. I don’t like being pedantic but the whole meaning of the expression changes when you say “despite” or “in spite of.” So when you thought you heard Dr. Laura say “despite your face,” she was probably correctly saying “to spite your face,” since the difference is very subtle to the ear, although obvious when written.
Posted by Sara Davies on May 12, 2009 at 10:28 am
It’s actually “TO spite your face.” The expression refers to harming yourself in the process of trying to get what you want, or a kind of bitterness or mean-spiritedness. Cut off your nose to spite your face – not “in spite of” – what does that mean? Nothing.
Posted by Glenn Theis on May 12, 2009 at 10:50 am
I love the newsletters – keep them coming.
The quote you referred to is actually “cut off your nose to spite your face,” not in spite of. Maybe Dr Laura got it right and you only heard it as “despite” instead of “to spite.” An awful lot of words and phrases get lost in the translation when we hear words differently than they were spoken. Or the words might have really been spoken incorrectly. Enunciation is a very big part of it. People then have learned the words incorrectly and then continued to use them unknowingly. A lot of children do this because of their limited word knowledge. You could probably think of many examples. My 9-year-old daughter comes up with some often. It helps her because we get to explain the correct way and what the word or phrase means.
Check it out on the internet to confirm this. I typed in “cut off your nose to spite you face” and got a page of references including Wikipedia. It really makes more sense the correct way.
Again, love your newsletters, your seminar, and the DVD package we bought from you.
Glenn Theis
Posted by kate temple on May 12, 2009 at 11:05 am
Actually, you are all wrong about in spite of, or despite–the expression is “cut off your nose TO SPITE your face. Just thought you might want to know.
Posted by Paul Stein on May 12, 2009 at 11:37 am
Glenn,
It’s amazing how people botch all sorts of expressions in daily life. I listen to National Public Radio a lot, and the reporters work to get interviews with local politicians, small business owners, and regular Joes off the street. Invariably, every one, reporters and citizens alike, tries to “drop” an expression into the discussion, and nine times out of ten it comes out wrong. When you drive down the road and you see that wierd guy yelling at his radio, that’s me correcting somebody.
What I hate the most when listening to conversations at work or on the radio, however, is the lack of the use of the article “an” and the mispronunciation of the word “the” before a word beginning with a vowel. Our President Obama doesn’t use an, but instead says “aye”, like many people, as if that error will make up for the real one. Most people, instead of using the correct pronunciation “thee” simply cut off most of the e, thinking that error will make the sound more palatable. Wrong, at least for me. Aren’t these facts taught in school any more? I guess not in California.
Posted by Terry McCann on May 12, 2009 at 11:44 am
Glen,
Enjoy your articles very much – they’re ‘right on the button’. However, about the ‘cutting off your nose’ quote which one of your readers corrected you on. I always was under the impression that it was as follows:
‘To cut off your nose, to spite your face”!
Best Regards,
Terry.
Posted by Andrew Mackenzie on May 12, 2009 at 11:50 am
Doh – the editing discussion kicked off my inner editor. The idiom is “cutting off your nose to spite the face” or sometimes phrased “your face.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cutting_off_the_nose_to_spite_the_face
Cutting off the nose in spite of the face isn’t really right and doesn’t really make sense – it’s “to spite your face.”
Google searches on the two options reveal 1,500 hits for “the face” and ~35K hits for “your face.”
Editing Glenn and the first reader. . .
Posted by Beverly Brown on May 12, 2009 at 11:50 am
was wrong about this one. It should be: TO spite his face.
Sorry. I know better. I just often type wrong.
Beverley
Posted by Robert Hartmann on May 12, 2009 at 11:51 am
Hi Glenn,
The saying should be “to spite your face”. I have attached an excerpt found “googling” the phrase:
Cut off your nose to spite your face
Meaning
Disadvantage yourself in order to do harm to an adversary.
Origin
The Oxford Dictionary of Quotations lists this proverb as “mid 16th century – mid 14th century in French”. I wouldn’t doubt them but the earliest citation I can find in print is much later. Grose’s 1796 edition of the ‘Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue’ explains it thus:
“He cut off his nose to be revenged of his face. Said of one who, to be revenged on his neighbour, has materially injured himself.”
Your newsletter is a great benefit. I wish I and or my company could afford more of your seminars.
Have a Great Day,
Bob
Robert Hartmann
Endicott Interconnect Technology
Posted by Marian Eagen on May 12, 2009 at 11:52 am
The expression is actually :”to cut off one’s nose to spite one’s face”…. In other words it is silly to perform an action to hurt/spite someone, if it is going to end up hurting you more in the end.
Marian Eagen
Director, Corporate Services | Directrice, Services généraux
Corporate Services Branch | Direction des services généraux
Patented Medicine Prices Review Board | Conseil d’examen du prix des médicaments brevetés
Box L40, 333 Laurier Avenue West, Suite 1400 | Boîte L40, 333, rue Laurier ouest, Bureau 1400
Ottawa, ON, K1P 1C1
Posted by Dorothy E Ramsey on May 12, 2009 at 11:52 am
don’t usually write to critique someone’s writing – we all have our moments. But, here goes …
I don’t think it is to cut off your nose “in spite of your face” – I believe the actual saying is “cut off your nose to spite your face”. As in, “It makes no sense to cut off your nose to spite your face.” This is probably how people get to “despite your face”.
Have a great day!
Dorothy E Ramsey, CPA CBM
Chief Financial Officer
Great Lakes Quick Lube Limited Partnership
Posted by Joann Luke on May 12, 2009 at 11:53 am
It’s “Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face”.
Love your emails – keep htem coming!
Joann Luke, Office Manager / Reinhardt, Whitley, Summerlin & Pittman, P.C.
Posted by Joyce Thomas on May 12, 2009 at 11:54 am
Glenn –
I LOVE your newsletter! (And — by the way, to you and the reader: the saying is: “to cut off one’s nose to spite his face.”
(not despite…..not in spite of…..)
Have a wonderful day!! You do so much to make all of us better managers!!
Joyce
Joyce Thomas
Gastroenterology Associates
of Iowa City, PC
Posted by Megs on May 12, 2009 at 11:55 am
My mother always used the expression “Don’t cut off your nose to spite your face.” The wording “in spite of” your face could give a similar meaning but the expression is, I believe to spite. Check Wikipedia for a great story about how the expression originated.
Regards,
Megs
Posted by Pat O'Leary on May 12, 2009 at 11:55 am
Actually it should be, “TO spite your face” that’s why people always get it mixed up with “despite” (despite sounds just like to spite)
Perhaps you’d like to give your “astute” subscriber some constructive criticism!
“Despite” tiny errors like this, your writing is absolutely engrossing, and its content so valuable. Strive for perfection, but don’t let it become the focus.
As for criticism, I always liked the approach of stating the problem, followed by pointing out a strength, followed by assigning a goal, then following up to reassess. Isn’t this the “One Minute Manager” style? Do you buy into that approach?
My compliments to you and your down-to-earth style, and your refusal to tip-toe around the politically correct land mines.
Keep it coming! Thanks, Pat
Posted by Steve Thompson on May 12, 2009 at 11:56 am
I believe the phrase listed below is some what regional in its nature as to how it is said. Western up state N.Y., where I was raised, the phrase went, “You’d cut off your nose to (or – just to) spite your face”.
“Run that up the flag pole and see if any one is astute.”
Thanks, Steve
Posted by Ralph Hillman on May 12, 2009 at 11:57 am
Glenn
This is another good one, right on target.
Thanks.
Voicedoc
Posted by Patricia Edwards on May 13, 2009 at 8:48 am
Dude, It’s “Bite off your nose to spite your face” — it’s in the infinitive form & has the deeper meaning of…. oh well. Thanks for taking the time to attempt enlightening us — I am paid to perform HR & payroll for a moving company in three states & your weekly is invaluable to me. Your sayings are consistantly posted clearly in my cube & are not the most popular. Also thank you for most times having a decent perspective – altho you could use a bit of constructive critisism yourself in terms of presenting ideas specific to the female gender. Regards